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Home » Fellowship Forum » Praying The Psalms in Contradiction to The New Testament

Praying The Psalms in Contradiction to The New Testament

Submitted by mtavares on Mon, 08/23/2010 - 1:17pm
  • Fellowship Forum
I've gotten advice from several different people to use the Psalms as material for prayer. Some say that Jesus would have prayed them as well. Last weekend I was praying Psalms at a Benedictine Monastery, a place where the Psalms are obviously prayed with deep passion. As I was praying Psalm 108 I realized we were praying for punishment to our enemies. Psalm 109 is probably a better example of what I'm about to get at. If we're supposed to be praying for our enemies per the advice of Jesus, should we really be opening our lips with such words as those in Psalm 108 and 109? Certainly, we have to understand the complete history of the Psalms and what Jesus was saying. However, when we pray shouldn't we mean it? My question to anyone here who has some insight to offer is, how do you feel when you pray Psalms like this? Are you reflecting on it, or actually praying it? By the way, I asked a couple of the monks, and they seemed to lean towards the reflecting answer, but I'm still left contemplating this myself. Thanks, Matt
Thu, 09/02/2010 - 10:19pm
#1
cbedgar
User offline. Last seen 1 week 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 12/09/2009
Intelectual Relationship, Emotional Relationship

I am a very intelectual person.  Even my relationships are characterized by discussion, debate, and puzzling through interesting problems.  I often say "I admire you" by arguing with your ideas.

But as St Paul says in Corinthians, "Knowledge puffs up; love builds up."  I believe God wants us to have a passionate, emotional, spiritual relationship with him.  I believe deep, honest prayer is not always pretty or PC.  He made us the way we are, and he wants all of us, not just the good parts.

When I was leading a youth group, we asked the kids to lead a Sunday service.  As part of this, they wrote the prayers of the people.  In this part of the service, a lay person says prayers in front of and for the congregation.  One of the things the kids wanted to pray for was warm water for surfing.  One of the church elders talked them out of this because of all the harm warmer ocean temperatures can do to marine life and the climate.  I was angry about this.  Prayer is asking for what you want; God gives us what we need.  

I believe the Psalms teach us a lot about prayer and being honest in prayer.  3000 years later, we are afraid, lonely, hurt, and angry.  We are also grateful, joyous,  in love, and in awe.  By praying the Psalms, we learn about who we are, and we learn about who God is.

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Sun, 09/05/2010 - 1:27pm
#2
mtavares
User offline. Last seen 15 weeks 21 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 11/21/2009
thanks for your input
Thanks for your input cbedgar. I'm starting to appreciate more the idea that "God wants all of us". As I've heard Dr. Creasy say before in a different context, "adults eat steak". It seems that it is of no real use to anyone to pretend we're perfect pious angels of some sort when dealing with real life situations.

Thanks,
Matt


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Fri, 09/03/2010 - 2:18pm
#3
Dr. Creasy
User offline. Last seen 5 hours 36 min ago. Offline
Joined: 11/06/2009
Prayer & the Psalms

You're right on target.  As St. Ambrose said, "When we pray we talk with God; when we read his word, we listen to him."  The Psalms are the perfect vehicle for engaging God in conversation and exploring all of our responses to him; in reading and studying Scripture we hear God's response to us.  It's a dialogue.  And in that dialogue, we grow closer to the one we love.

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Mon, 08/30/2010 - 2:43pm
#4
Dr. Creasy
User offline. Last seen 5 hours 36 min ago. Offline
Joined: 11/06/2009
Praying the Psalms

Matt--Very good question!  For me, Psalms is the most difficult book in the Bible to teach, for the reason you mention, among others.  The Psalms are written over a period of 1,000 years; 73 of them are attributed to David (including Psalm 108 & 109).  The Psalms take us inside the heart of our relationship with God, and like any relationship, there are good times, bad times and everything else in between.  David's psalms are a good example.  Some of his psalms reflect moments of great intimacy with God; some disappointment and anger; and some call down God's vengeance on David's enemies, or those whom David perceives as God's enemies.  See Psalm 139, for example.  It is a glorious, intimate response to God's love for David, which ends with David saying of God's enemies:  "I hate them with a perfect hatred!"

Is this how we should feel?  Of course not.  But sometimes we do.  The Psalms explore every possible response we can have in our relationship with God, right or wrong. In this sense, I would place myself among the Benedictines who pray the Psalms as a reflection on their relationship with God.

I taught a Saturday Seminar a few months ago titled, "The Psalms, a Journey through the Poetry of Experience."  In the seminar we explored at some depth the very question you have raised.  You can listen to the seminar here:  https://www.logosbiblestudy.org/praying-psalms.

 

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Wed, 09/01/2010 - 11:02am
#5
mtavares
User offline. Last seen 15 weeks 21 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 11/21/2009
The line you quoted, "I hate
The line you quoted, "I hate them with a perfect hatred", made me laugh. I like the idea that sometimes we do just feel this way. We would be repressing our emotions/psyche if we just think we'll have perfect forgiveness of enemies right of the bat. I guess it's kind of like listening to a song in a tough time that doesn't make much logical sense in your right mind, but it can help you in the time of trouble.

After asking this question, I had some people from my parish send me some hurtful messages at the church for using class material from a certain priest. Here I am taking my time out, and I'm getting heck for it. Then I coincidentally heard one of your classes online where you mentioned how people walked out of your David and Goliath talk at the art museum. I started recalling several other stories I've heard of other priests and speakers getting anonymous hate mail. At first, we really do feel like cursing them as enemies, but I guess Jesus tells us we really should be praying for them at the end of the day.

Thanks for the Psalm seminar link. I'm looking forward to checking it out.



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Wed, 09/01/2010 - 12:25pm
#6
Dr. Creasy
User offline. Last seen 5 hours 36 min ago. Offline
Joined: 11/06/2009
Grrrrrrr!

It's tough being the object of criticism, especially when it comes from people you thought were your friends!  But it goes with the territory.  In 30 years of teaching the Bible I've developed an ability to let criticism run off my back, like water off a duck (well, at least most of the time!).  I was once told by a good friend that to be a Bible teacher (or a pastor) you need to have the mind of a scholar, the heart of a woman and the skin of an alligator.  

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