• Login
  • My Account

Upcoming

  • "The Book of Revelation" - Good Shepherd
    Tuesday, 7 February 2012 - 10:00am - 12:00pm
  • "A Portrait of Paul" - Torrey Pines Christian Church
    Tuesday, 7 February 2012 - 7:00pm - 9:00pm
  • "Revelation" - LBS Classroom
    Wednesday, 8 February 2012 - 10:00am - 12:00pm
  • "A Portrait of Jesus" - USD
    Wednesday, 8 February 2012 - 7:00pm - 9:00pm
  • "The Bible" - USD
    Thursday, 9 February 2012 - 10:00am - 12:00pm
more

Primary Links

  • Home
  • About Logos Bible Study
  • Bible Study Resources
  • Fellowship Forum
  • Dr. Creasy's Blog
  • Bible Travel
  • Calendar
  • Archives
  • Logos Affiliates
  • Class Information
Home » Fellowship Forum » Authority, Freedom, and the Pharisees

Authority, Freedom, and the Pharisees

Submitted by russwills on Tue, 08/10/2010 - 7:39pm
  • Fellowship Forum

Hey, Dr. Bill. I’m picking up my last thread where I left off with questions about the RC Church. Here’s one of my bigger trouble spots. In Ex. 6 God announces that if the people obey his voice and keep his covenant they will be, among other things, a kingdom of priests. God then established the Levitical system and ordained priests and a high priest, etc. I’ve been learning more and more about how closely the liturgies of the RC Church resemble Judaism and I understand that a vast majority of the liturgies and practices of the Church come either directly or indirectly from Scripture and ancient Jewish practices. The more I learn, the more amazed I am and the more beautiful the liturgies become for me.

At the same time, though, the writer of Hebrews declares that Jesus is the ultimate high priest whose sacrifice brought us under a new covenant. Now, through Christ, we can enter the holy place. In the introduction to Revelation John calls us “a kingdom of priests”. So, if I understand correctly, God desired his people to be a kingdom of priests, and this was accomplished at the cross. If that is correct (and that’s a big if), why can only priests ordained by the RC Church handle the Eucharist and perform many of the sacraments? If we are a kingdom of priests, shouldn’t we all be performing the duties of a priest?

And, as a sometimes-stereotypical Gen-Xer challenging rules and authority, why does the Church command so many rules that appear to be extra-Biblical. Many of the rules I’ve become familiar with seem an awful lot like the “hedge around the Law” that Jesus opposed so strongly in his arguments with the Pharisees. Some of the rules in the RC Church even seem to contradict the teachings of Scripture. This is one of the things that make me most hesitant to become a member of the RC Church.

Can you comment on these things? In particular, what is the basis for the authority structure in the RC Church? Am I misinterpreting these things? And/or has the RC Church evolved from a Pharisaic strand of Judaism? (When I say “Pharisaic” here I do not mean it in a derogatory way – Paul still considered himself a Pharisee after he was following Christ. Paul and Barnabas had some convincing to do before James declared that Gentile believers should not be bound by the Torah.) It almost feels like the Church has returned to a form of Christianity from before the Jerusalem council, enforcing a type of “law” that Jesus freed us from and James declared unnecessary.

Okay, I keep trying to write short questions and then I get carried away, sorry! Anything you could offer on this topic would be deeply appreciated!

-Russ

Wed, 08/11/2010 - 7:12am
#1
lauribattista
User offline. Last seen 40 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 07/27/2010
P.S. RC Church
Hello Russ, Almost forgot Scott Hahn's newest book: Reasons to Believe: How to Understand, Explain, and Defend the Catholic Faith! Peace, Lauri Battista
Top
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 6:22pm
#2
russwills
User is online Online
Joined: 11/17/2009
Thanks
This is great, thank you Lauri. I've read some of Hahn's work before. I haven't read his latest, but I think my wife has it. I'll steal it from her at some point. ;) If you have any insights into these questions I would love to hear from you. Thanks again!
Top
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:41pm
#3
lauribattista
User offline. Last seen 40 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 07/27/2010
Authority of the Church
Hello Russ, I will do my best to explain! Jesus says to Peter in Matthew 16 v. 18 "And I tell you that you are Peter (from the Greek Petros, or rock!), and on this rock (that is Peter!), I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. It is from this passage, that Christ gives to Peter the Apostolic Authority to build Christ's Church. Peter was the Apostle chosen by Christ himself giving him the authority to build Christ's Church. Peter became the 1st Pope and it is by the Apostolic succession - the laying on of hands from one Bishop to the next all through the centuries that we have the Papal succession. Beginning with Christ to Peter and then Peter to the next Bishop and so on handed down throug the centuries through the power of the Holy Spirit (and the Magesterium of the Church - that is, the teaching arm of the Church), we have the Papacy. Then immediately following the above passage, Jesus says to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16 v. 19. It is upon this passage in Scripture that we have the understanding of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession. Christ, our High Priest, gave Peter the authority to bind and loose sin here on earth. And Christ said whatever you bind or loose here on earth will be held bound/loose in heaven. When we sin, we go to the Priest who stands "in persona Christi", again, through Apostolic Succession, he is Christ's representative on earth - the Apostolic succession of each Bishop laying on of hands during the Sacrament of Holy Orders which is handed onto him by his Bishop and his Bishop before him all the way back to Christ! It is wonderful to know that Christ's words are fulfilled even today. The grace and possibility of receiving the beautiful Sacrament of Reconciliation and receiving in persona Christi, the healing words "I absolve you from your sin..." St. Faustina recounts in her diary that the Lord said to her "When you approach the confessional, know this, that I Myself am waiting there for you. I am only hidden by the priest, but I Myself act in your soul. Here the misery of the soul meets the God of mercy. Tell souls that from this fount of mercy souls draw graces solely with the vessel of trust. If there trust is great, there is no limit to My generosity." (Diary, Notebook VI, 1602) Also, in John 6 v. 48, Jesus says "I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." This is one of the Scriptural passages that refers to the Sacrament of the Eucharist which Christ established at the Last Supper! In John 6 v. 54, Christ says "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at he last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." The Mass is a true miracle everytime it is celebrated - the KAIROS (the fullness of time) breaks through to the CHRONOS (chronological time)- Christ becomes substantially present each time the Host is consecrated. As Scott Hahn has written, we get to experience Heaven on earth, that is Christ's glorified eternal body breaks through to chronological time and becomes miraculously present in that small host - in order to be with us here on earth! If we can eat a piece of bread and the miracle of digestion takes place transforming that piece of bread into the cells of our body, why can't Christ transubstantiate his glorified body into a piece of bread to feed our souls? Christ affirms this when he says to the Apostles in Matthew 28 v. 20 "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." How does he remain with us always? By our Baptism he has entered our souls and sacramentally, he is with us always in the Eucharist, consecrated every day, at every hour since the last supper over 2,000 years ago. St. Faustina writes in her diary "In the place of the monstrance, I saw the glorious face of the Lord, and He said to me, 'What you see in reality, these souls see through faith. Oh, how pleasing to Me is their great faith! You see, although there appears to be no trace of life in Me, in reality it is present in its fullness in each and every Host. But for Me to be able to act upon a soul, the soul must have faith. O how pleasing to Me is living faith!' (Diary, Notebook V, 1420). It is quite late for me here, so I will sign off. I hope this helps you! God bless you, Lauri Battista
Top
Sun, 08/15/2010 - 6:26pm
#4
russwills
User is online Online
Joined: 11/17/2009
re: Authority of the Church
Thank you again, Lauri. I'm familiar with quite a bit of this, and I suppose I will have to push Hahn's book farther up my reading list. I'm still unsure what I believe about the Eucharist. My official stance has moved from "it's a metaphor" to "not literal but there is something very holy about it" to "I don't know". I'm quite content at "I don't know", though the more I search Scripture the more I see a literal understanding of the Host becoming flesh and blood. Anyway, I'm still puzzled about other aspects of the authority question, like the Church evolving from a Pharisaical strand of Judaism along with an extra-Biblical "hedge around the law". I will certainly see what Hahn has to say, and hopefully Dr. Creasy and others will weigh in as well. Thank you again for taking the time to converse! I appreciate that very much! Looking forward to more. -rw
Top
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 7:09am
#5
lauribattista
User offline. Last seen 40 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 07/27/2010
RC Church
Hello Russ, Though I know that you addressed your question to Dr. Creasy, I thought I could provide you with some resources that could assist you on your quest for answers! I refer you to Scott Hahn, a Catholic convert from Presbyterianism who wrote a book recounting his conversion experience entitled: Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (written with his wife, Kimberly Hahn). He now teaches Biblical Theology at Franciscan University. Addressing your specific questions about RC authority, check out his books entitled: Swear to God: The Promise and Power of the Sacraments, Living the Mysteries: A Guide for Unfinished Christians (with Mike Aquilina), The Lamb's Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth, Lord, Have Mercy: The Healing Power of Confession, Letter and Spirit: From Written Text to Living Word in the Liturgy, Scripture Matters: Essays on Reading the Bible from the Heart of the Church. You may also want to check out Catholic Apologist, Patrick Madrid's website and his Envoy Institute specifically directed at Gen-X. He is approachable and can answer with clarity any question you might have about the Catholic Faith. I also direct you to Catholic Answers Live(www.catholic.com/radio.asp)a live daily radio show where you can call in any question you might have. The schedule/calendar is online and you can see the specific topics they are covering as well as their general call in times. FANTASTIC INFORMATION THERE! Check out too THE JOURNEY HOME hosted on EWTN by Marcus Grodi broadcast on cable (and also viewable online) that features a 1 hour interview with specific guests who have converted to Catholicism - compelling, fascinating and interesting! Featuring former Jews, Baptists, Methodists, Athiests, gang members, etc. You can also listen online to prior interviews throughout the years - so check it out - you will not be disappointed! God Bless you on your journey, Russ! Peace be with you, Lauri Battista
Top
Sign up for Logos RSS
Add Logos to your MyMSN RSS feeds Add Logos to your Yahoo RSS feeds Add Logos to your Google RSS feeds Logos Blog RSS Feed

Footer Links

  • Bible Study Resources
  • About Logos Bible Study
  • Dr Creasy's Blog
  • Fellowship Forum
  • Bible Travel
  • Terms of Use
  • Sitemap
  • Help
  • Calendar
  • Contact Us
  • Press Room
  • Privacy Policy

Visit LBS for your free, daily online bible study. Dr. Bill Creasy offers world-class, multimedia bible commentary through innovative software and cutting-edge technology. Endorsed by Catholic and Protestant alike, LBS is the most comprehensive, in-depth bible study program on the planet.

© Copyright 2011 Logos Bible Study, Inc.. All Rights Reserved.